SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
And Rusty Sabich is back. The character created by Scott Turow has been a prosecutor, a defendant, a defense attorney, a judge. He's been played by big stars on screen, most recently Jake Gyllenhaal. But Rusty is now 77. He's retired and living in what city folks might call the sticks, when a young woman named Mae Potter goes missing. She'd gone camping with her boyfriend Aaron Housley, who's on parole for holding drugs for her. Mae is found dead in the woods where they'd hiked, but her phone is in Aaron's possession, and he's charged with murder. So who you going to call?
"Presumed Guilty" is the new novel by Scott Turow, the novelist and lawyer, who's sold more than 30 million books around the world since "Presumed Innocent" came out in 1987. He joins us from Naples, Florida. Scott, thanks so much for being with us.
SCOTT TUROW: Thank you for having me.
SIMON: Rusty has some personal complications when it comes to taking on Aaron's case, doesn't he?
TUROW: He's not the ideal candidate to be the defense lawyer, as you - one point is that he's not very skilled as a defense lawyer. The second is that Aaron is about - at least he hopes he's going to become - his stepson, the son of the woman to whom Rusty is engaged, Bea Mena (ph). So you would ordinarily think representing a family member or a potential family member is not such a great idea.
SIMON: Tell us about this place in which the novel is set. It's different from Kindle County, which I wouldn't be the first person to suggest to you, this is simply Chicago under another name. But this is it Skagen Region in the upper Midwest?
TUROW: You know, the great thing about writing novels is you write these strange words, and there's no pronunciation guide that comes with the book.
SIMON: (Laughter) OK.
TUROW: So to me, it's always been Skagen County. It has made regular appearances in my novels. But this time, of course, we're further to the north, which is more remote than Skagen County, where Aaron is going to be tried because that's where the body was found.
SIMON: And everybody knows each other. And we should mention that Aaron, adopted by Bea, is Black. And this area, as we say, lacks diversity.
TUROW: Yes. He says to Rusty when they're first thinking about, you know, who's going to defend him, can't be a Black lawyer. The reason is because he's been looking out the jailhouse window, and he hasn't seen a Black person walk by. And he's concluded, sadly, that having two Black men at the defense table in a room of all white people is not what they'd call good strategy.
SIMON: Scott, was it important to you for Rusty Sabich to grow old? He's 77 in this novel. Why not just suspend him in time, like Ian Fleming did with James Bond?
TUROW: Well, you know, I wrote another novel about Rusty that came out about 15 years ago, called "Innocent." At the end of that novel, Rusty had just been released from prison. It left him in such a sad and shattered state that I felt I owed him more - this character whose career has been synonymous with my own. I finished that book thinking, I really can't leave him quite this miserable. And thematically, to me, this book is about an important theme, which is, can you do better the second time around? Can you live a life that's more pleasing to yourself? That is really the question that hovers over the novel - and Rusty.
SIMON: I'm struck by when you say that Rusty's career has been synonymous with your own. Does he take up a lot of real estate in your mind and heart?
TUROW: You know, there are certain characters that you come back to when you're lucky enough to have had a long career as a novelist. And part of it, of course, is rooted in the fact that people seem to like Rusty's voice. But another piece of that, of course, is the voice is so close to your own. At least in this case, it is for me.
SIMON: Is "Presumed Guilty" going to be a movie, too?
TUROW: The short answer is there's a film deal in place. And as yet, I do not have permission from the parties involved to say who it is and what's happening. So identities, as of today, are still a secret.
SIMON: I mean, forgive the obvious - Harrison Ford, again?
TUROW: Would be fine with me. You'd get no objections from me.
SIMON: Your novels so beautifully reveal the human qualities of everybody involved in the legal system and a trial, from judge to members of the jury, and those human qualities include frailties. Do you ever wonder if your novels will make people less trustworthy of the legal system?
TUROW: You know, in today's United States where people are so skeptical of virtually every public institution, I really don't think that I'm going to diminish their faith in the legal system. I hope that what they come away with is some respect for what the law is trying to do. To, you know, govern the little bit of life that human beings can control by reason so that it's - you know, it's not duals and throwing the witches in the lake and seeing if they float. It's a human institution, and that means that it's undermined constantly by the people who practice it. But the goals are really worthy.
SIMON: While we have you, you served as president of The Authors Guild. How can copyright laws survive in an age when someone can paste the entire contents of a book onto the web and some people believe they should because it makes information free?
TUROW: I'm, of course, like everybody else, in favor of the wide dispersion of knowledge. But knowledge, despite the sloganeers, is never free. It has taken time and effort for that knowledge to be created. And the kind of system we live in grants to authors a monopoly for a limited period of time over their works. And if it's not respected, then the result is there are going to be fewer voices, a less diverse and vibrant literary culture and a poorer democracy.
SIMON: Do you have any concerns about authors being replaced by artificial intelligence?
TUROW: I'm afraid that the imitations, the ersatz version, you know, it will cheapen the market for the works of distinction. You know, if a machine can write works as great as those of Tolstoy or Shakespeare, then humanity will be better off for it. But the problem is, you know, the second-rate imitations and what they're going to do to, you know, the literary marketplace. And that's what concerns me.
SIMON: Scott Turow. His new novel "Presumed Guilty." Thanks so much for being with us.
TUROW: It's my pleasure always. Thanks for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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