MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
President Trump says he wants to help Afghan refugees who are stuck in the United Arab Emirates. That is according to a social media post yesterday from the president, a post that took a lot of folks by surprise given that since his return to office this year, President Trump has moved to end protections that allow Afghan refugees to live here in the U.S., also suspended refugee resettlement here and enacted a ban on travelers from Afghanistan, among other countries. So what's going on here? And what might it mean for Afghan refugees? Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts is an Iraq veteran. He's advocated on behalf of Iraqis and Afghans who helped the U.S. in those wars. He joins me now. Congressman, welcome.
SETH MOULTON: Good afternoon.
KELLY: Hi. So just to spell out what specifically the president said in his post yesterday, I quote, "I will try to save them starting right now." And then he linked to reporting that the UAE plans to return Afghan refugees to Afghanistan - Afghanistan, of course, under Taliban rule now. I will note that NPR has not confirmed this reporting. Big picture, what do you make of it?
MOULTON: Well, it is a little bit hard to understand coming from Donald Trump. So it's a welcome sign that maybe someone has convinced him that this actually is important, that it does matter for U.S. credibility in future conflicts that we actually uphold our moral obligations.
KELLY: How do you understand it in light of the - all of the moves that I just listed that President Trump has made since returning for a second term?
MOULTON: I mean, that's why it's so surprising, right? I mean, this is not a person who appreciates what our servicemen and women even do, let alone our allies overseas. What we don't know, though, to be fair, is exactly what the service record of these particular Afghans is. We know that we left a lot of our allies behind, and that's why I and so many other veterans on both sides of the aisle have been consistent advocates for improving our immigration process and making sure we do more to save Afghan and Iraqis who are stuck behind. But we also know that in the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan that some people got out who weren't probably properly vetted, and so it's reasonable to ask questions about why they're still in the UAE at this point.
KELLY: A lot of details remain murky here, as you are noting. I do hear you being very critical of President Trump's past policy on war. If this is true, if the president is recommitting to helping Afghan refugees, I gather that is something you would support.
MOULTON: Of course, and I'm not going to let politics get in the way of helping these refugees who deserve our support because we promised it to them. I am cautioning that we need to make sure that the people who we're bringing in are actually the people who work for us, and that's why there is extensive vetting. Donald Trump has repeatedly defunded the processes and people in place to provide that vetting, and that's one of the reasons why people are still stuck in places like the UAE, because he always put up roadblocks, both during his first term and then also in his second, to doing this proper vetting and processing. So I welcome his suggestion, but let's make sure he actually follows through.
KELLY: Is this something the president can actually do? Can he directly intervene on the fate of Afghan refugees who are currently in the United Arab Emirates?
MOULTON: Absolutely.
KELLY: How?
MOULTON: The president of the United States has enormous power to save lives of people who would be persecuted to the point of death if they were forced to return to Afghanistan. They'll be seen as traitors by the Taliban, and not just potentially translators who worked with us, who put their lives on the line not just for Afghanistan but for America as well. So the commander-in-chief of the United States absolutely can intervene and work with the UAE to make sure that they are taken care of. And that's not what he's done in the past, but I will join Republicans in saying we welcome it if he's going to do it now.
KELLY: Does this potentially open the door? Would he need to reinstate TPS or the refugee resettlement program here in the States?
MOULTON: It's hard to underestimate how much Trump has eviscerated these refugee programs. And even if you're someone who's against them, it means that the people in place just to vet folks who come or to make sure that we're admitting the right people, they're gone now. They've been fired by Elon Musk. And so it's hard to do this well. And we can't underestimate that. But does the president have the power to change that? Yes, he does. And it sounds today like, although you'd never hear this language from Donald Trump, he might even be admitting that his administration made a mistake.
KELLY: What about Congress? What role does Congress have here?
MOULTON: Congress has a big role to play. And I've worked with Republicans and fellow Democrats to make progress on this issue. Up until now, though, Republicans have been afraid of Trump - and let's not give them a break on this - I mean, afraid of Trump to do things for these allies whose lives are in the balance, are hanging in the balance. But maybe because Trump seems to suddenly agree with them, they'll finally have the courage to do the right thing.
KELLY: Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton, thank you.
MOULTON: Thank you.
KELLY: And we have reached out to the State Department for comment. We have not heard back. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
